Interviews with the XXX News Crew
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THE KEITH WITCHKA INTERVIEW WITH DR. WILBERT C. JORDAN
EXCLUSIVELY ON JRL
Post Date: 7-04-08 1:14 a.m. PDT
I am pleased to bring you one of the leaders in the fight against HIV and AIDS Worldwide.
Dr. Wilbert C. Jordan has been practicing internal/infectious disease medicine for over 37 years and has spent the last 20 years specializing in the fight against HIV and AIDS. With views on both sides of this issue at levels never seen before in the Adult Film Industry, JRL has made it a major point to bring you the facts pertaining to bareback films, high risk behavior in the Gay Community, as well as educational tools to better serve our community.
When I was blessed with the honor of interviewing Dr. Jordan, I couldn't wait to sit him down and get right into the guts of this explosive issue.
I now give you Dr. Wilbert C. Jordan.
Keith: Dr. Jordan, thank you for joining us here on JRLChartsOnline. The Adult Film Industry, especially the Gay Adult Film Industry, has had a major issue on barebacking. We have had models test positive after performing in a gay xxx film as well as other performers performing with HIV. What's the first thing that you can tell our industry about the huge rise in HIV and AIDS infections?
Dr. Jordan: First, thanks for asking me to respond and be interviewed. I have three points to make: 1) I have HIV+ patients who are in porn. They tell me there is a lab that will clear them as HIV -. That's what they say . . . I can't verify it. If that is true then it is possible that all of the alleged "HIV -" performers may not in fact be HIV negative. 2) I doubt if someone will engage in barebacking on screen and not off-screen. 3) The reality is that receptive anal intercourse is the highest risk activity. To knowingly be the passive partner in this with someone who is HIV+, is simply stupid. It is just like a diabetic eating a pint of ice cream and not taking any meds. Barebacking can be safe just as heterosexual sex can be safe, but only when both partners are HIV - and there is true monogamy. I don't think it has a place in porn.
Keith: Latinos and African Americans have been hit by this disease in a huge way. As a matter of fact, the Center for Disease Control (C.D.C.), recently launched a new H.I.V. reporting system designed to differentiate between recent and older infections. The increase in diagnoses was especially high among males between the ages of 13 and 24, with an annual increase of 12.4 %, compared to 1.5 % for men overall. The annual increase was still higher among young African-American men who have sex with men, nearly 15 %.
Would You say this is because of the Adult Film Industry?...or lack of education on both the Federal level as well as the state and local level?
Dr. Jordan: We are seeing a tremendous increase among young persons under age 22. What is interesting is that the majority of our clients seem to know very little about HIV, or about life. I don't think the role of educating these young people is the responsibility of the adult movie industry. There are parents, and institutions such as schools, community groups, CBO's and churches, that must play their respective roles. It would be good to establish some kind of educational sound bites, for those kids that interact with the adult film industry; but, I doubt if the adult industry can shoulder the bulk of this responsibility.
Keith: In our industry, we have bareback studios who are big sellers in today's adult marketplace. They put "Public Service Announcements" at the beginning of their features to let the consumer know that this is a fantasy, and that safe-sex should always be used with your partner. What more can bareback studios do to educate and promote safe sex while at the same time providing a fantasy for gay consumers that want it on a global scale?
Dr. Jordan: This begs the question . . . what is more important, the individuals right, or society's. Do we provide movies that show someone actually being raped because there are people who want to see it and will pay for it; but, we give a public service announcement warning the viewers not to go out and do this . . . or should we show a lynching by the KKK and warn people not to try this?
Of course there are people who can watch this and let their fantasy be fulfilled and take it no further. But there are others who cannot. Much of what occurs in the gay community is power-based sex, not romantic sex. When it is that, the top really rules. He migrates to that person whom he can control. I call it the " I love you more than I love myself" syndrome. We need more messages that say sex without a condom is wrong, bad, not wise, should not be done, etc in casual encounters. This is true for heterosexual sex as well. At least if we make that the standard it will allow people to know what they should be doing. Privately, they will do what their needs dictate.
Keith: GayVN.com did a poll late last year where they asked how consumers felt about bareback films. The vast majority of votes came in for "As long as the models don't care why should I". Do you feel that that is a dangerous train of thought? and why?
Dr. Jordan: Yes it is a dangerous train of thought. Go look at what porn looked like in the 50's and 60's. It doesn't have to be so graphic. Let's face it, we can justify anything if there are enough dollars involved.
Keith: One thing that I did want to check on is Asian gay men. Asian studios make up close to 50% of their gay xxx product as bareback content. According to the C.D.C, Asians aren't contracting the HIV/AIDS virus in the same percentages as White, Black and Latin. What are your takes on that?
Dr. Jordan: Obviously they are having sex with HIV- tops. However, if one of their actors becomes HIV+ and engages in barebacking, he can infect a woman or a man.
Keith: The Heterosexual Adult marketplace continues to produce and release bareback feature films but, they don't get the same ridicule as the gay market does. Is there a difference or a double standard here? In other words, are we still under the illusion that this is a "GAY" only disease?
Dr. Jordan: I can't say. It is weird that, in many heterosexual films the male re-inserts after ejaculating. If he is HIV+ he can still infect his female partner. Personally I think the adult film industry needs to deal with barebacking the same as the "straight" industry needs to deal with smoking. The latter is a lot less significant, yet it has not done a great job with that yet.
Keith: The European Union has seen a significant increase in HIV/AIDS related cases. And as I mentioned earlier in this interview, we have seen models test positive after performing in a gay xxx feature film. Do you see the numbers of AIDS cases increasing in the white male category as we see in the minority communities?
Dr. Jordan: I think we will continue to see a rise in HIV, though not as much among whites. I think it may be more among less affluent white gay males this time around; many of whom will have sex for money, drugs, etc.
Keith: I have spoken to performers who are not truly concerned about catching the HIV/AIDS virus. They seem to feel that with the drugs on the marketplace today, they can continue to lead a normal life. Could this be the cause of why models are so quick to jump into a bareback feature without any regard for their health? Or, is it that the medicines that are available today that weren't available 20 years ago, are allowing people to live a normal life.
Dr. Jordan: It is good that we have meds. It is important to remember that becoming HIV+ means a lifelong change. Just because there is insulin and pills, doesn’t mean I want to get diabetes! I feel that is an excuse to justify the money.
Keith: Why are they feeling this way...I mean, is it a lack of education, self esteem?....
Dr. Jordan: I think, (a truly personal opinion), most people in porn have little , if any, self esteem. Having low self-esteem is not " oh woe is me"...or " I feel like shit." Low self esteem is having not been loved, or having more negative remembrances of childhood than positive.
Keith: There have been reports from New York, Chicago, Houston, San Francisco, Miami, Baltimore and Las Vegas, where patients are selling their medication to people as HIV/AIDS killers. "Take a pill tonight or in the morning and have bareback sex all night and not worry about catching the virus". When did this trend start?
Dr. Jordan: Yes it is a deviation of PEP ( post-exposure prophylaxis). It can be very dangerous, especially if you have sex with a HIV+ positive person who is resistant to the pills you are taking.
Keith: The Latin and Black markets have not been producing as much content in the bareback genre as the "white male" genre. Is it that Latinos and Blacks are more aware of their high rate of infection or is it that they are not being compensated the same as their counterparts in the white male genre?
Dr. Jordan: You're asking me? What I know about porn today, is from my patients and what I read. I assume it is the money. From what I've seen, white gay porn is produced at a higher quality than the other productions. One should ask why?
Keith: One thing that has been a huge issue is oral sex without a condom. We have films that are "condom" but, they ejaculate in the mouths of their partners. You can see that they are swallowing. What is the official risk to swallowing cum, as apposed to fucking without a condom?
Dr. Jordan: The chance of getting HIV from swallowing is relatively low. But it can happen. The easiest would be if the swallower had a recent tooth pulled so he/she has a open port in the mouth that connects directly to their blood stream. Remember, the HIV has to get into your blood stream. Having someone ejaculate (cum) in their mouth increases the risk of getting HIV. Their are enzymes in the mouth that help to inactivate the virus, and so the acid in the stomach. Now there is a difference between one swallow vs. many swallows, which increases the risk. It is important to realize it is a risk.. The more you do, the greater the risk.
Keith: I really wanted to touch on that issue because in our industry, wearing a condom to screw is one thing, but wearing a condom to suck cock is another. Should producers who release "condom only" features start to have their performers wearing a condom when they are giving "head"?
Dr. Jordan: Again, you're asking me !! The risk is in the screwing. If we can get condoms worn when intercourse is taking place, we should all be happy.
Keith: Are there numbers that show where people contract the HIV/AIDS virus from giving oral sex versus bareback sex?
Dr. Jordan: I'm not familiar. I've had only two patients who in 28 years I can say became HIV+ because of oral sex. Both cases involved blood and lots of semen.
Keith: Talk to us about fisting features. There have been films produced that clearly show penetration with a person's hand and partial arm. Is there a risk in contracting the virus in this genre?
Dr. Jordan: Very little . . . the PAIN is more of an issue!! The bigger risk is from rimming the fisted guy afterwards, if he is HIV+. The trauma from his being fisted, may have blood tinged secretions in his rectum.
Keith: Dr. Jordan, ever since I begain this assignment on barebacking in the Gay Adult Film Industry, I've received emails from gay consumers who state, ("I'll watch what I want to watch"..."no one is going to tell me how to have sex"...." You can do all of the promotion on safe sex all you want to, but I'm going to decide what I want to do sexually"). Are gay men insulted by other adults telling them how they should conduct themselves during their sexual encounters?
Dr. Jordan: That's their right. I hope they have the means to pay for the care they will need if they become HIV+. you can make the same argument for a diabetic, hypertensive, smoking, etc. Again, it is the individuals rights vs. the rights of society.
Keith: The bareback genre isn't going anywhere anytime soon. What type of advice can you give to a marketplace that makes upwards, close to 60% of today's Adult marketplace?
Dr. Jordan: Look at it as a fantasy and don't engage in it without truly knowing the HIV status of your partner.
Keith: What are your thoughts on models who are HIV+ and are willing to perform with other HIV+ models, because they feel that they are already infected and nothing worse can happen to them?
Dr. Jordan: They still need to protect themselves or they risk getting a resistant strain from someone or transmitting one. It's the image. It's just a bad message for the industry to send.
Keith: Dr. Jordan, you are a leader in the fight again HIV/AIDS in the Black Community. What's the latest in medicines that are now available to those infected with this terrible virus?
Dr. Jordan: There are several new medicines. The important thing is for people to get tested in order to know their status and to take their meds correctly. Too many people do not take their meds correctly for a variety of reasons. It is important for the patient to take their meds correctly.
Keith: Testing . . . have the numbers of people going to get tested increased over the past decade or have they declined for fear of finding out they are HIV+?
Dr. Jordan: No, the numbers getting tested have increased. We need to de-stigmatize it the whole process, so people are more comfortable getting tested. We also need to test in areas where we get a high yield. I don't want to test 5000 people to identify 3...I'd rather test 50 and find 17. That's why we are identifying the zip codes with the highest rates of HIV, STD, and teenage pregnancies and planning a zip code-wide testing during November.
Keith: Today's 13-25 age group is the No.1 HIGH RISK group that is contracting this disease. What can we do as an industry to educate this age group to get tested and continue to get tested based on their sexual activities?
Dr. Jordan: Half of this age group, the 13-18 year olds , should not even be involved with your industry. All you can do is provide relative public service announcement. These kids will listen to other kids. So having someone 44 yrs old making a public service announcement, will not grab their attention. If you are going to do a public service announcement, be sure to use someone in the 14 - 22 year age range.
Keith: Dr. Jordan, why aren't we seeing public service announcements in the heterosexual community in adult films? The Gay Adult Film Industry is by far the leader in attempting to educate our community on the seriousness of this disease. Is it in part because of the expensive medicines that are available now and that people aren't dropping like "flies" as they were back in the 80's and 90's?
Dr. Jordan: You have to ask the heterosexual adult film industry ( is that how the porn industry is divided? heterosexual vs. homosexual?) well...HIV is the passion issue of the gay community, just as civil rights is the passion issue of the Black community. I think the gay community will always feel a special ownership in terms of HIV just as the Black community does when it comes to civil rights/desegregation, or Latinos do in terms of immigration issues.
Keith: Thank you again Dr. Jordan, for sitting in with us on this issue and I hope that you'll come back and chat with us again soon.
Dr. Jordan: You're welcome!
Dr. Wilbert C. Jordan graduated from Case Western Reserve University School of Medicine with an MD in 1971 and has been practicing Infectious Disease Medicine for over 29 years. He is Director of the OASIS Clinic, located at the MLK-MACC and is also affiliated with St. Francis Medical Center and California Hospital Medical Center in Los Angeles.
Dr. Jordan practices Infectious Diseases. He has been featured on CNN, MSNBC and NBC. He has given countless speeches on the AIDS crisis in both the United States, the European Union, Asia and Africa. He is known on a global scale as being one of the leaders in the war against HIV and AIDS.
We'll continue to bring you the latest on this issue and make sure to keep us locked in for the latest info and entertainment on the Gay Adult Film Industry. Thank you for joining us here today on JRL and make sure to keep us locked in daily for the latest Info and Entertainment on the Gay Adult Film Industry.